The Maggotdrowners Forum - Rules for Rules sake
The Maggotdrowners Forum
  Maggotdrowning.com
Username: Password: Save Password
    GENERAL TOOLS:  Home Page | Register | MaggotMail | Active Topics | Search | FAQ | Calendar | Classifieds | Contact us | Advertise | MD's TV | Online Store
    MEMBER TOOLS:    Log In or Click Here to Register and access these tools.   |   Forgot your Username and/or Password?

 All Forums
 Fishing
 Fishing Talk
 Rules for Rules sake
 New Topic  Reply to Topic  Printer Friendly
Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 2

Feldy
Life Member

Site Supporter

Middlesex
United Kingdom

Member Since
26 June 2012

Posts: 484

Status:

Posted - 11 January 2017 :  12:10:10 PM  Show Profile  Visit Feldy's Homepage Bookmark this topic Add Feldy to your friends list Reply to Topic Quote this Post

Our club have our agm next month and one of the proposals is a maximum hook size of 10. Braid is also banned from all waters even just as hooklengths.

Is there any good reason why the above two rules should exist in your opinions?
Reason being is I sometimes use a size 6 or 8 hook when fishing mussels and I would like to use braid hooklengths.
I'm a fairly new member (3-4 years) but would like to oppose the max hook size rule and would like a decent argument to oppose with, as it is all hooks are barbless.

TIA

Sponsored Advert

Become a
Site Supporter
and remove
this Advert

 

Advertise here

Google Advert

Become a
Site Supporter
and remove
this Advert

Become a Site Supporter and remove these Adverts - Click Here

Neil ofthe nene
Life Member

Site Supporter

Northamptonshire
United Kingdom

Member Since
04 May 2009

Posts: 15612

Status:
I'm not Alan Scotthorne

Posted - 11 January 2017 :  12:11:37 PM  Show Profile  Visit Neil ofthe nene's Homepage Bookmark this reply Add Neil ofthe nene to your friends list Reply to Topic Quote this Post

Braid cuts into the fish's mouths.

And anything larger than a 10 is barbaric for normal sized fish.




Average club angler who seems to get the right methods sorted halfway through a match, just in time to say "if only"

http://neilofthenene.blogspot.co.uk/

Go to Top of Page

genesis
Life Member

Site Supporter

West Yorkshire
United Kingdom

Member Since
16 November 2014

Posts: 4265

Status:
ACCOUNT LOCKED

Posted - 11 January 2017 :  12:31:09 PM  Show Profile  Visit genesis's Homepage Bookmark this reply Add genesis to your friends list Reply to Topic Quote this Post

quote :
Originally posted by Neil ofthe nene

Braid cuts into the fish's mouths.

And anything larger than a 10 is barbaric for normal sized fish.


Exactly



Go to Top of Page

brian carragher
Life Member

Teesside
England

Member Since
06 January 2007

Posts: 497

Posted - 11 January 2017 :  12:31:11 PM  Show Profile  Visit brian carragher's Homepage Bookmark this reply Add brian carragher to your friends list Reply to Topic Quote this Post

What is a normal sized fish?

Guessing he's either tench or carp fishing, probably more so carp given the hook size and theres certainly nothing barbaric in that


Go to Top of Page

corbyclubman
Life Member

Northamptonshire
United Kingdom

Member Since
01 January 2015

Posts: 1069

Posted - 11 January 2017 :  12:45:59 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add corbyclubman to your friends list Reply to Topic Quote this Post

I see no reason to use anything bigger than a 10 and no reason to use braid. I very very rarely use even a 12. if your fishing club matches on commercials then there's no need to. Also you must be breaking the rules at atleast one commercial if that's where you are fishing as most places have maximum size 10 hook rule.


Go to Top of Page

Sponsored Advert

Become a
Site Supporter
and remove
this Advert

 

Advertise here

cjsid
Life Member

Site Supporter

Staffordshire

Member Since
01 December 2009

Posts: 999

Status:

Posted - 11 January 2017 :  1:05:41 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add cjsid to your friends list Reply to Topic Quote this Post

Tbf the hook size is a mine field , some makes size 10 are like 6-8 size anyway , I see no problems with braid mainline and mono hook length's as long as they are over 15" long , but everyone has their own ideas



Go to Top of Page

pat 1948
Life Member

Site Supporter

Staffordshire
United Kingdom

Member Since
22 September 2013

Posts: 8741

Status:
fair, fat and retired

Posted - 11 January 2017 :  1:09:32 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add pat 1948 to your friends list Reply to Topic Quote this Post

I use 6's and 8's when fishing bread or black slugs for chub on the rivers, why the problems with 10's?



pat
Go to Top of Page

Simon R
Life Member

Site Supporter

Teesside
England

Member Since
19 May 2002

Posts: 10287

Status:

My Photo Album

Posted - 11 January 2017 :  1:17:48 PM  Show Profile  Visit Simon R's Homepage  Click to see Simon R's MSN Messenger address Bookmark this reply Add Simon R to your friends list Reply to Topic Quote this Post

It's a shame some people don't actually read a thread before going off on a rant - they guy never mentioned matches or commercials.

If the lake in question contains sizeable fish (and you say there's a barbless hook rule anyway) what difference is using a size 6 rather than a size 10 actually going to make - a slightly larger hole in the fishes lip perhaps?
I would ask, politely, why the rule was introduced in the first place.

The books and magazines always advocate matching the size of hook to the size of bait and a mussel is a fair sized lump of bait.

I don't believe braid damages fish but it's become one of those urban myths that becomes very hard to dislodge so you may have less success overcoming that ban.

Simon





https://www.facebook.com/groups/stokesley.ac/
Go to Top of Page

RiverRunt
Member

Tyne and Wear
United Kingdom

Member Since
04 April 2011

Posts: 29

Posted - 11 January 2017 :  1:36:34 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add RiverRunt to your friends list Reply to Topic Quote this Post

quote :
I don't believe braid damages fish but it's become one of those urban myths that becomes very hard to dislodge so you may have less success overcoming that ban.


I've always thought that the rule may be introduced as a result of knowing how easily braid can cut if pulled tight. Your hands are at risk, let alone the mouth of a fish, if someone is being heavy handed when striking, or playing a bigger fish (or even pulling for a break when snagged up, with a sizeable fish still attached to the hook)


Go to Top of Page

Sponsored Advert

Become a
Site Supporter
and remove
this Advert

 

Advertise here

gingert76
Ginge

Site Supporter


Member Since
03 December 2002

Posts: 952

Status:

Posted - 11 January 2017 :  1:45:45 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add gingert76 to your friends list Reply to Topic Quote this Post

you can get uncoated very very fine braid which certainly can do damage but with all the coated braids and the thickness of braid that is used in carp fishing you would be hard pressed to even find a thin uncoated braid and you would be a plonker if you used it, so in general braid does not cut a fishes mouth.

I wouldnt say rules for rules sake, if the majority vote it as a rule then the majority think its a rule worth having and if someone doesnt like the rule as they fish a different way then they will vote with their feet or adapt!

I only ever use a hook bigger than a 12 for my serious carp fishing and most of my UK carp fishing is with a 10 and france is with a 8, never need to use anything bigger than a size 6 unless im sea fishing! and yes i use braid hooklengths for my carping but they are always coated and 60% of the time i now use Flouro for the hooklengths so a braid ban wouldnt bother me either way.

Have had 2 carp over 49lb in france on size 8 hooks and have confidence that the smaller hook i can use the better for my fishing.




Edited by - gingert76 on 11 January 2017 1:57:49 PM
Go to Top of Page

Sam Vimes
Life Member

North Yorkshire
United Kingdom

Member Since
27 April 2009

Posts: 3034

Posted - 11 January 2017 :  1:54:25 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Sam Vimes to your friends list Reply to Topic Quote this Post

quote :
Originally posted by Feldy

Our club have our agm next month and one of the proposals is a maximum hook size of 10. Braid is also banned from all waters even just as hooklengths.

Is there any good reason why the above two rules should exist in your opinions?


It's lowest common denominator stuff from a club that is dominated by match and general coarse anglers. Not a big surprise, nor necessarily bad rules if that's the way the majority want the fishing to be.

Most match/general anglers believe that all braid will cut fish. However, the reality is that a well made and designed hooklength braid should be no more likely to cut than monofilament. The problem here is that you can't tell at a glance the differences between good and bad hooklength braid or braid intended as mainline only. The inevitable result is to ban the use of all braids, because you can't account for fools that use incorrect braids or use braid inappropriately. I use braid as mainline, for barbelling and trotting. I also use braid hooklinks for barbelling and carping. However, if I had my own day ticket fishery, I'd probably ban its use myself. There are simply too many idiots about that use it inappropriately and put the stock at risk.

When it comes to hook sizes, it would be pretty rare to find a general coarse angler or matchman that would use much bigger than a ten. Those that do would often consider themselves specialists of one kind or another. I know that my out and out carp tackle rarely involves hooks smaller than an eight. I don't carry any hooks smaller than a twelve in my carp gear. With my more usual general coarse gear, I rarely use hooks bigger than a fourteen. An eight is the largest I carry with such gear, but I doubt I've used one in decades. My barbel set up would probably overlap with hooks running from eights to Fourteens. I would suggest that the comittee, and hopefully the bulk of the membership, don't really want what they consider to be specialist/modern carp tactics being used on their waters. Again, despite doing a fair bit of carping/specialist angling myself, if I owned a day ticket mixed coarse fishery (not a water aimed at specimen angling) I'd probably consider a ban on bigger hooks myself. For a water intended purely for the carp bivvy brigade I'd probably ban hooks smaller than a twelve.


Go to Top of Page

Google Advert

Become a
Site Supporter
and remove
this Advert

Become a Site Supporter and remove these Adverts - Click Here

gingert76
Ginge

Site Supporter


Member Since
03 December 2002

Posts: 952

Status:

Posted - 11 January 2017 :  1:57:00 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add gingert76 to your friends list Reply to Topic Quote this Post

excellent post!



Go to Top of Page

Aquaman2000uk
Life Member

Kent
England

Member Since
17 September 2004

Posts: 824

Posted - 11 January 2017 :  2:00:04 PM  Show Profile  Send Aquaman2000uk a Yahoo! Message Bookmark this reply Add Aquaman2000uk to your friends list Reply to Topic Quote this Post

I agree it really does depend on the size of fish and the type of braid ! I would wince at the thought of fishing for 25 pound plus fish with size 12 even if I have done it in the past .



Edited by - Aquaman2000uk on 11 January 2017 2:03:52 PM
Go to Top of Page

Sponsored Advert

Become a
Site Supporter
and remove
this Advert

 

Advertise here

Aquaman2000uk
Life Member

Kent
England

Member Since
17 September 2004

Posts: 824

Posted - 11 January 2017 :  2:28:25 PM  Show Profile  Send Aquaman2000uk a Yahoo! Message Bookmark this reply Add Aquaman2000uk to your friends list Reply to Topic Quote this Post

Another thing Iíve noticed over the years, is that at big fish venues where you canít use small hooks the fish have almost perfect mouths, yet at match/commercials venues Iíve visited the fish always have a degree of damage especially to the mouths with many of the smaller fish having what is called parrot mouth and are deemed hard to catch! Nick Speed mentioned this in one of his videos


Go to Top of Page

Neil ofthe nene
Life Member

Site Supporter

Northamptonshire
United Kingdom

Member Since
04 May 2009

Posts: 15612

Status:
I'm not Alan Scotthorne

Posted - 11 January 2017 :  2:32:33 PM  Show Profile  Visit Neil ofthe nene's Homepage Bookmark this reply Add Neil ofthe nene to your friends list Reply to Topic Quote this Post

Just to clarify "normal" to me is fish up to around 10lb.

If this is a standard club lake with no carp over 15lb I see no need for huge hooks. If it is a specimen syndicate type water where the carp are 20-50lb then I can see the benefit of using larger hooks.

What size fish in the lake are being targeted with mussels on a 6-8 hook?




Average club angler who seems to get the right methods sorted halfway through a match, just in time to say "if only"

http://neilofthenene.blogspot.co.uk/

Go to Top of Page

skimmerman
Member

Bristol

Member Since
29 March 2009

Posts: 59

Posted - 11 January 2017 :  2:39:06 PM  Show Profile  Visit skimmerman's Homepage Bookmark this reply Add skimmerman to your friends list Reply to Topic Quote this Post

Just been reading on the Shearwater and Longleat Facebook page they are banning barbless hooks and you will only be able to use micro barbed hooks from now on, it will be interesting to see if the new carp they are stocking will end up with parrot mouths as some of the carp mouths in the lakes are in an awful state.


Go to Top of Page

blue orfe
Life Member

Site Supporter

Berkshire
United Kingdom

Member Since
28 January 2011

Posts: 1003

Status:

Posted - 11 January 2017 :  2:59:52 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add blue orfe to your friends list Reply to Topic Quote this Post

I use size 4 to 8 hooks regularly on the river for cheese paste or lob worms, have caught all sizes of chub and perch down to a few ounces. Does them no harm at all if handled and unhooked correctly.



Go to Top of Page

Sponsored Advert

Become a
Site Supporter
and remove
this Advert

 

Advertise here

Breac
Life Member

Site Supporter

Highland

Member Since
23 September 2015

Posts: 279

Status:

Posted - 11 January 2017 :  3:06:33 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Breac to your friends list Reply to Topic Quote this Post

One mans meat is anothers poison, whatever the majority decide will be the right decission, it has to be.

There are so many internet bred misconceptions taken as read in all walks of life not just fishing.

You can be sure that if you disagree with one club/syndicate there will be another that shares your veiws.



Breac
Go to Top of Page

blue orfe
Life Member

Site Supporter

Berkshire
United Kingdom

Member Since
28 January 2011

Posts: 1003

Status:

Posted - 11 January 2017 :  3:56:55 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add blue orfe to your friends list Reply to Topic Quote this Post

The problem is carp anglers now often outnumber match/pleasure anglers at AGM's so you get lumbered with daft rules like having to have a giant unhooking mat ready for use next to you and carrying lip anti-septic!! Rules apply even when trotting the river for roach, ridiculous.



Go to Top of Page

Neil ofthe nene
Life Member

Site Supporter

Northamptonshire
United Kingdom

Member Since
04 May 2009

Posts: 15612

Status:
I'm not Alan Scotthorne

Posted - 11 January 2017 :  4:17:01 PM  Show Profile  Visit Neil ofthe nene's Homepage Bookmark this reply Add Neil ofthe nene to your friends list Reply to Topic Quote this Post

quote :
Originally posted by blue orfe

Does them no harm at all if handled and unhooked correctly.


I would not trust many of the numpties I see fishing my club lake to do that.




Average club angler who seems to get the right methods sorted halfway through a match, just in time to say "if only"

http://neilofthenene.blogspot.co.uk/

Go to Top of Page

blue orfe
Life Member

Site Supporter

Berkshire
United Kingdom

Member Since
28 January 2011

Posts: 1003

Status:

Posted - 11 January 2017 :  4:39:02 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add blue orfe to your friends list Reply to Topic Quote this Post

quote :
Originally posted by Neil ofthe nene

quote :
Originally posted by blue orfe

Does them no harm at all if handled and unhooked correctly.


I would not trust many of the numpties I see fishing my club lake to do that.

That's fair comment Neil and the problem is we all finish up getting treated like numpties to take into account the limitations of real numpties.



Go to Top of Page
Page: of 2 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Next Page
 New Topic  Reply to Topic  Printer Friendly
Jump To:
 

Maggotdrowning.com    Contact us    Disclaimer    Donations    Support MDs    MaggotMail Login © Maggotdrowning.com, 2001 - 2017 Go To Top Of Page

Snitz Forums 2000
Display: 0.44 seconds.